Maddy Roche: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Childfree Life by Design. Today we’re talking about a topic that a lot of our audience has actually written in about and asked us about over the years, but it’s a topic that can be quite taboo, and that is medical aid in dying. And what it means for people who are building a Childfree life on their own terms.

I’m Maddy Roche, and I’m here with Zeena Regis, director of Priority Populations at Compassion and Choices. And today we’re gonna talk about the work that she does and the work of her organization. If you’ve ever wondered what medical really means, this conversation will give you clarity and tools to make the intentional decisions that are right for you.

Intro: From Childfree Insights, this is Childfree Life By Design, the go-to resource for building the Childfree life you want. Every episode gives you practical guidance, clear direction, and meaningful conversations to help you live intentionally and design a future on your terms. This [00:01:00] podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Please consult your advisor before implementing any ideas heard on this podcast.

Maddy Roche: Zeena, welcome to the podcast.

Zeena Regis: Thank you, Maddy. I’m so happy to be here.

Maddy Roche: It’s so lovely to have you. We’ve known each other now for several months, and it has been just a total pleasure to get to know you, the work you do and the work that your organization does. And I’d love for you just to introduce yourself to the audience, who you are and what you do.

Zeena Regis: Yes. My name is Zeena Regis, and I am the director of Priority Populations with Compassionate Choices. And I have been working in the end of life space, oh my goodness, now for almost 20 years. I started as a hospice chaplain. And then I worked as a bereavement coordinator and have just fallen in love with hospice and fallen in love with helping companion people through their end of life journey.

And that has now taken me to compassionate choices, which [00:02:00] I’m so grateful to have as my partner in this work.

Maddy Roche: We’ll get into the work of compassion and choices in just a minute, but it’s not every day that you meet a hospice chaplain. Could you tell us a little bit about what that work is and what brought you into it?

Zeena Regis: Yes, absolutely. So I was scared to death. When I first started as a hospice chaplain. My first job out of divinity school was working as a chaplain in a prison, in a correctional facility. And when the Georgia Department of Corrections cut a lot of the chaplain positions, my boss at the time said, you’d be really great in hospice.

You love relationship building. You love talking people, you love talking people through transitions, because at that time I was working as a transitional chaplain in the correctional facility helping inmates who were going to be transitioning home. And I’m like, that’s a completely different transition.

But said, trust me, and I’m glad I did because [00:03:00] I, started a residency as a chaplain and I loved the work. There’s something about death, that just removes all small talk. So, the conversations that I got to have with people and their families at that time that just felt so holy and so sacred were just a gift.

I’m always like, just honored that people would allow me a complete stranger into their home at such a really significant time. And so that’s how I got into the work. Even though I’m working at Compassionate Choices, I still consider my work, chaplaincy. I still do some PRN chaplaincy as needed just because it really feels less like a job and more like a calling in many ways.

Maddy Roche: I just had dinner, coincidentally with a death doula last night, I want to introduce her to you. She was describing death as beautiful as birth, and I just thought that was such a beautiful framing of it. And I’m wondering from your experience, what were you surprised by with that work?

Zeena Regis: Yeah. I heard someone say that [00:04:00] we grieve in character and it made me automatically think that we die in character. Who we are typically throughout our life is who we are at death. And that sounds like, duh. But I think that I had seen so many hollywood renditions of this deathbed. This big reconciliation moment or these big changes, but we get to be who we are even when we’re dying, which was

so comforting to me. I’m like, I will be who I am until the end. And another thing that really surprised me is how funny it is. My husband would always say, you have too many stories and too much laughter to be working in hospice all day. But it was like, people are who they are, and I just would always have the stories.

This one is probably a little off color, but this is just exactly, the kind of conversations I was having. So I am talking to this gentleman who’s at the end of his life and he’s like, I have something that I really need to talk to you about. And I’m [00:05:00] like, okay. And he’s like, I’m just wondering, do you think there’s gonna be marijuana in heaven?

Deep conversation about is there gonna be weed in heaven? And then a social worker that I worked closely with, she said, you won’t believe the conversation I just had. So I’m like, me too. And she’s like, the person that she was talking to was like, do you think they’re gonna be titties in heaven?

And so we were like, what is happening today? But anyway, we laughed. We were like, what if we get to heaven? And it’s all marijuana and titties for these two men. That’s apparently what they want. We would just have these crazy conversations. It’s people, it’s who they are. But, also really beautiful conversations.

And then another thing that surprised me is that, often people want to talk about their death. It’s their circle of support that does not want to talk about it. And so people are often ready to go, when it’s their time. Most people are ready to go. And also they wanna talk about it. They wanna explore and ask questions and all these [00:06:00] things.

But because our culture is one where we don’t really allow space for those conversations, we don’t get to have them. And so, I felt like a lot of my work was encouraging people to talk about it and to talk about it with the people that you love, because those would be such beautiful conversations for people.

And they would also just be memories that their surviving loved ones would get to have forever and ever.

Maddy Roche: Wow. There’s so much there. Just to give the audience context, compassion and choices has been a driving force behind almost every medical aid in dying law in the us and this was actually something I didn’t know about until you and I met that in 13 states plus Washington DC, medical aid in dying is supported and authorized. But

Zeena, what does that really mean? What is the privilege that states like Montana where I am, that we as the residents have with this authorization from the work that your organization has done?

Zeena Regis: Yes, absolutely. So medical aid in dying, very simply put, [00:07:00] is legislation that allows for terminally ill people who have less than six months left to live. That’s their prognosis, who are deemed mentally competent, as well as over the age of 18 to request a prescription to end their life peacefully in their sleep.

And so they’re able to get that from a physician, and use that prescription. And so the states were as authorized, pretty much all of the safeguards are the same. Like I said, you have to be terminally ill. You have to have a prognosis of six months or less. You have to be mentally capable to make that decision.

You have to be able to self administer the prescription. So it can’t be an injection, it can’t be given to you. You have to be able to administer it yourself. It has to be completely self-directed. And so often what people find surprising is that you can get the prescription and decide not to take it.

And I talk with people all the time who say, I just wanna be [00:08:00] able to have it in case I need it. You don’t have to take the prescription. You can go through the whole process and say, I actually decide that I want to die. I just wanna die in the way that the disease takes me.

And so we had a banner last year, 2025 and 2026, where there was for a while. We were at 11 states, and then just in quick succession, we had Delaware, Illinois, and New York become authorized states.

It’s an exciting time for us in the sense that we really feel like having an authorization of medical aid in dying helps end of life care writ large in the state. A lot of the research finds that where medical aid in dying is authorized, care improves even for people who will never, ever,

want medical aid in dying is an option. And actually a very small percentage of people will ever use medical aid in dying. But the whole state, it improves because of the open conversations about end of life options. And it just makes sense when you have more options, you have more [00:09:00] discussions and care improves.

And so we just see medical aid in dying is one of the many care options that are available including hospice and palliative care. We just see it as part of the spectrum of end of life care.

Maddy Roche: Oh, so fascinating. Now you’re the director of Priority Populations. Can you talk a bit about that work and what those populations are and why it’s important to have someone like you in that position?

Zeena Regis: Yes. So, like I said, medical aid in dying death is a very small percentage of how we die across the United States, but a hundred percent of us will die. As an organization, wanted to make sure that people have access to informations and resources and education regardless of the death that they choose.

Part of our mission is that empowering everyone to chart their end of life journey. And so part of our work is we were finding when we did a lot of the research, we did a summit, oh, maybe about five or six years ago. That was all about disparities in end of life care and found that in African [00:10:00] American communities, in LGBTQIA communities, in Latino communities, in Asian American communities, there was just this under utilization of the available options, including hospice care. Part of our work began is we want everybody to have the death that they define as a dignified death. The work of my team is just having education.

People don’t wanna talk about death, but often people do. They want to know what their options are. And so I really have the privilege of going into different communities and educating them about, okay, these are the options in your state. This is what it looks like to fill out an advanced directive.

This is what the law says in your state about this, this, and that. You also have the opportunity to refuse care. If you don’t want it at the end of life, you don’t have to have these specific treatments. And so really just talking to people about what are end of life options.

So many times, it’s something that we talk a lot about at Compassionate Choices, but I would go into communities and they would be like, [00:11:00] what are you talking about end of life options? There’s really not any option. And then when we would explain, no, you can do this, you can have this treatment or not this treatment.

You can opt to die at home and opening up that conversation. And so that’s a lot of our Priority Populations program is really just providing education, resources and tools so that people are able to chart their end of life journey.

Maddy Roche: Given your stats around improved care and just your own lived experience of witnessing people really lean into this idea of dignified death. Why do you think states or congress people are unwilling to pass this? Why don’t we have 50 states with medical aid in dying?

Zeena Regis: I tend to think that a lot of it is misinformation, honestly. I think whenever we have the opportunity to really talk about what the legislation does, who the legislation is for, and that when no one will be forced to ever do it, that changes the [00:12:00] conversation. Because I’ll start in rooms talking about medical aid in dying and there’s a term of death panels I remember years ago.

People are that still stuck in their mind, there are people deciding who lives and dies and when we really are able to have the conversation? Actually, no. It’s a completely voluntary, self-directed, patient-directed process.

We’re able to start a new conversation and in a lot of communities that have been traditionally underserved and have a lot of mistrust of the healthcare institution, there’s a thought that, okay, if I can’t pay a bill, they’re going to force me to do this.

We’re able to have these conversations, that’s actually not at all how medical aid in dying works. So I think a lot of it is misinformation. I also think that there’s a lot of people’s own morality around life and death gets tied up into it as well. And there are a lot of powerful institutions, including religious institutions who spend a lot of money lobbying against it. And so even in those [00:13:00] spaces, when I’m able to talk to those communities directly, I worked for a long time at Compassion Choices as the director of Faith Engagement. So I would work in Catholic communities, baptist communities, just all kinds of faith communities who are like, this is wrong.

And then we’d have a conversation, like, oh, I actually don’t want less rights for anybody. That’s something that I might not decide, that doesn’t jive with my personal morality or my personal faith, but I can actually see why somebody might want that. And I often start with stories.

We have a very robust program of storytellers at Compassionate Choices who tell their stories about either trying to access medical aid in dying and not being able to, or trying to assist a family member accessing it. And you see like, there’s unnecessary suffering and if we can stop people from that type of suffering, I would love to be a part of that. And so I think it’s changing. More and more states that are authorized, I [00:14:00] think we’re getting to combat this misinformation that’s happening around the practice.

Maddy Roche: Oh, I’m so thankful for you in this organization. What impactful work. Because you’ve been really front lines to end of life. I’m wondering from your perspective, how can people get prepared for this, not just in the decision of medical aid in dying, but from a perspective of estate planning and making sure ducks are in a row.

What do you find is some of the most crucial pieces people can have in place to ensure that their wishes are followed?

Zeena Regis: Yes. So I think first of all, it is asking questions before a crisis. Doing the planning before a crisis, knowing what is available in your state or jurisdiction before that. Like you said, not even about medical aid in dying also about what you need. When I first started as a hospice chaplain,

I remember I quickly was reading all these books like about what dying people want and final gifts and all of these things, which are wonderful books. But [00:15:00] I was expecting to go to these hospice beds and have these really deep life and death, faith conversations. But often what I found is people are

dealing with the logistics of death right up until they die. And it’s often because we haven’t had those conversations. And so patients, families, everyone is distracted by these questions. One of the things I think about a lot is hospice utilization. Actually, I can’t remember the exact statistics, but I think the average length of stay on a hospice program is

maybe six or seven days if that long. And so it’s right at the end of life. And it’s often when they’re too busy to reap the benefits. There’s too much happening. And so I always encourage people, right, when you find out about a difficult diagnosis, find out what your options are for hospice care and palliative care.

Talk to people about it. Death and dying can be such an isolating topic in our society. But [00:16:00] people need to know. And so I’m always telling people, if you hear a family, if you hear somebody in your community has had a great experience with a hospice company, write that down. If you hear this way before you need it, if you hear about a death doula or you’re listening to a webinar, if you are meet someone out and you’re like, oh, this is a resource I need, make sure you write that down.

Having these conversations early and often is so important way, way before you need it. Be in my bonnet is that we make this such a legalistic medical jargon field conversation that we miss the story in it. We also make it very individualistic. And so people are always imagining being in an estate planning office by themselves.

Having these conversations when it’s a family conversation, it’s a community conversation. It’s a conversation that you’re having with your circle of support. Given where we are talking about Childfree life by design, there’s this idea that if you have children to take [00:17:00] care of you, it’s great and you’re going to have this wonderful death.

And that’s absolutely not true. We actually have this, I probably shouldn’t say this, but we have this joke that like the more kids, the worse the care. People are just on different wavelengths. There’s all these conflicts. People have not had conversations.

So what I really found that really makes a difference in people’s end of life outcomes and their end of life experience is preparation. Having prepared whoever your healthcare proxy is, having thought through, what is the death experience that I want? Do I wanna be at home? Do I want my dog surrounding me?

Would I prefer to be in a facility. Really thinking through our values first before we get to the legalese and the jargon. Really thinking about who we are and what we want. One of my favorite stories is one of my patients was, a caterer. He loved cooking. And so one of [00:18:00] the things that he said, I know my quality of life has declined when I can’t cook anymore.

And that’s when I just wanna stop all treatment is when I’m not able to cook. And that’s exactly what he did. He was my patient for a few months. I know I gained a few pounds because he would cook and make pound cakes and bake and go to his home and he’d have all these wonderful meals.

And then when he didn’t have enough energy anymore to do that, he said, I wanna have minimal treatment at this point. That’s when he knew the things that are keeping me alive, let’s let those things go and let me die a peaceful natural death.

And he did. Those were his values, that if he couldn’t cook, if he couldn’t do what he loved, and that was sharing food with people, he knew it was time for his life to end. And so I really encourage people to think in those terms. What makes your life worth living?

What matters most to you? And if you can answer those questions and have a healthcare proxy or a healthcare team that understands that, [00:19:00] I just saw people have beautiful death experiences when they were able to live it according to their values.

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Maddy Roche: Oh, I love that so much. We recently did at Childfree Insight, some research on the Childfree population. And we are saying that there is a care crisis for the Childfree person and that Childfree people get their estate documentation done at actually a much lower rate than even the average American, which is already really [00:20:00] low.

So only about 20% of Childfree people have their estate documents in place. That’s alarming. The average American and about 30% of them have it. And I heard you say at one point that people actually, when they have an illness, do wanna talk about their death, but, I’m fine that people do not wanna talk about their death if they’re not sick.

So how would you coach someone to think through their beautiful death or what death with dignity looks like for them if they’re not facing terminal illness? How do we position people to actually make them answer some of these hard questions? Do you have any tips or tricks on that?

Zeena Regis: I do, I think one, community conversations are so important. So having them, if you can, if you’re a part of a faith community, if you are part of a community agency, I’ve even gone to rotary clubs and things like that. And why I think that’s important is because that helps us with the language of it.

It’s hard to have a conversation when you don’t even really [00:21:00] know what you’re talking about and you don’t know the language of it. Because people are like, I know vaguely I need a will. I know vaguely I need an advanced directive. But I think one is hard to imagine ourselves in the future and our dying selves.

That’s not something because of our own fears about mortality that we just wanna be talking. But I think when we put it in the context of community and story, that’s something that just gives us the language to be able to say, oh, okay. My friend had a death and it was not great, so let me think about what I would want and it’s not that.

I also think a really powerful way is art. Honestly, this is my own little thing, but I wrote a short play and it’s just a person having a conversation with a death doula. And then we had a conversation after it and people were like, oh, I can see this, I can see that. Even my mom, who I have these conversations with her all the time because of the work I do. It was [00:22:00] because of the play. And I’m like, I’m your child. I talk about these all the time. But it was the play, it was the actors working through this scenario that made her be like, okay, I want to set up my trust and I wanna have this, and that together.

So I often think like through art, and through music, and through documentaries, we can have these conversations. So I always encourage people to set up documentary screenings, have actors work out a scene, all those things to help us think through it. I think it’s really hard to see it, one, when we’re experiencing it with someone we love, we are in the midst of it and all the emotions around it can make it really difficult.

But when we’re watching someone’s artistic portrayal of it, it can spark something that’s divorced from those really difficult emotions. And so that’s one way that I think is a great way to get people talking about it. And I can even say, I just work all the time. I am Childfree. There was a long time where I was like, I don’t know [00:23:00] who I’m leaving things to, so it’s not really that important for me to have a will. And then I was like, no, that sounds really ridiculous. Our legacy is so much broader than children.

And so helping people think, okay, what do you want to live beyond you? Whatever that means for you, what do you want that to look like? Can also spark too. Getting even people thinking about what is legacy to me and in a hundred years, what would I wanna be remembered for? Can get people thinking about these conversations in ways that are beyond that like, okay, just sign on the dotted line and make sure you have this and this and that.

Really thinking about them in, and I say spiritual, not necessarily in a religious sense, but one’s own spirit and what animates our own lives. What is our higher power?

Maddy Roche: Oh, you have such beautiful language for all of this. To your point, yeah, will is what we off the cuff call a dead doc. It is triggered once you pass away. I think so many of us [00:24:00] underestimate all the living docs we gotta deal with and all the docs that can really protect us,

if there is the emergency or the proverbial bus ends up hitting us. I mean, there’s these documents that are under the banner of estate planning that really can protect us. And you’re Childfree. I’m Childfree. We’re in this Childfree world and our audience is too. Do you have any lived experiences of what could happen if a Childfree person doesn’t have a medical POA outlined or a financial POA outlined, healthcare directives?

What’s the alternative for folks without kids?

Zeena Regis: Yeah, it can be in many ways dire because it’s someone else making the decision for you. And don’t even get me started on my soapbox of this idea of how the state decides whose family and who gets to make decisions for us.

Maddy Roche: Get on that soapbox please. We’re here for it.

Zeena Regis: It’s based on these very antiquated ideas of who’s related to us and who’s connected to us.

And so it can be a sibling or an aunt or a niece or [00:25:00] nephew that does not really know who you are, who gets to make these decisions. And so I would often see that in hospice care, like you said, the proverbial bus hit someone and then the person that’s making their decision is not the person who’s connected to them in any way.

It’s not the person who knows what their wishes are. And so that’s one of the reasons why I’m like, it’s so important to have a healthcare proxy that knows you and knows that you would hate whatever this is, or you would want this. This is a silly thing, but I used to be like, I tell everybody if I’m dying and you have the news playing 24 7, because often people don’t want to be alone with their thoughts when someone’s dying.

And so they just have on CNN or Fox News or whatever, and I’m like, I’m coming to haunt you if I’m dying and the last voice I hear are news anchors and talking heads. I’m gonna haunt you for the rest of your life. We can’t have that. So that’s one of the things that I really [00:26:00] encourage people to do is think about who knows you and also who’s a good advocate. And who will advocate for you in that setting.

A lot of times if people don’t know you and know your wishes, they’re not gonna advocate for you and they’re not gonna be able to advocate for what you would want. And one thing I’ve seen a lot of people do is they will have a healthcare proxy and not tell them. And so the healthcare proxy was like, you’re calling me why?

I didn’t know I was that person. So they also are disconnected from what this person would want at the end of life. And so I think that is so, so important to one, have a healthcare proxy that you feel like will be competent to carry out your wishes, who is able to advocate for you, and also have a conversation with them about these are the things and I think technology is a great way to do this.

These are not legal documents, but I often encourage people to talk into a voice memo on your phone and send it to that person. Have a Google Doc that you have [00:27:00] shared with that person. I have a good friend who has a Google Doc password protected and she sent it to all of us, and we all have the password that if we ever need it, it’s all there.

And so there are all these things that you can do when these conversations are uncomfortable, but there are ways that we can make them more in concert with the way that we do things. We don’t have to all do them on these documents. And if you’ve gone to most states websites, they’re like these very antiquated documents that you’re like, what in the world?

You do need to do those. But you also can do them in a way that feels more like you

too.

Maddy Roche: Totally. And that’s what we’ve really tried to build at Childfree Trust®. As we’ve built Childfree Trust®, we’ve known that there are people out there that maybe don’t feel comfortable assigning these roles to anyone that they know. Specifically, we have people that actually are seeking a third party that can be a fiduciary to them, and that’s really what we built. And

we’ve leveraged technology to have that kind of interview that you’re talking about, where people can really start answering some of those beautiful questions that you’ve [00:28:00] prompted our audience members with, just around what death looks like and how they’d wanna be treated. So that in the case of needing someone to act on their behalf, their stories recorded, that their wishes are documented.

And then a third party that’s a regulated, ethically obligated fiduciary is able to act on your behalf. And I think that’s what people often underestimate around these healthcare proxies is that there’s a legal responsibility to being someone’s medical POA and there’s also an ethical obligation to them to be acting in their best interest.

And you’re off the cuff statement that more kids means worse care, really resonates because it is very hard to divorce your emotion from the experience of someone who’s dying and how can we ensure that our wishes will be protective if our mother doesn’t actually want us to die?

And that’s actually where Childfree Trust® can be leveraged in that as a third party, we’re able to step in and follow your wishes because we’re obligated to and we’re not biased by it. So I appreciate your perspective on it. [00:29:00] And I’m wondering, as you think ahead of the nature of medical aid in dying, where do you think it’s headed? What do you anticipate for your organization and our world at large with this concept?

Zeena Regis: I think we might be in for a fight in the short term, but I think in the long term, more and more people want to be able to have control and agency, throughout their life’s journey, but especially at the end of life. I have seen medical aid in dying legislations in particular have really strange bedfellows, like people that I would never imagine.

Now I live in Georgia and so I remember when people came to me about like, we wanna introduce medical aid in dying in Georgia. And I’m like, Georgia, absolutely not. This is not gonna happen. We will not have bipartisan support. But they’re actually doing a study now. A bipartisan study and finding that there are so many people who are coming to a lot of our legislators, are coming to this point in making decisions in their life [00:30:00] and realizing that they want this option.

And so I think as we start to tackle misinformation and as a culture, as we get more and more comfortable talking about death and dying, I think we are gonna see a culture shift. Where people are planning their deaths in the same way they plan their births. In the same way they plan their weddings in the same way they plan their vacations.

And not to be flippant about it, but I think people are realizing, when I wanna prepare something and I wanna experience something, I do the planning. And so I think people are going to start doing that planning and really shifting the way we think about it.

People often think it’s so morbid to be planning your death, and I think also we’re about to, I don’t remember the statistic, but I just saw a funeral director say that, because of the baby boomer generation, the amount of deaths we are going to see is just going to triple.

And so I think as death is closer and closer to people, they’re gonna say, oh, I really wanna have a agency. I really wanna have control. I wanna [00:31:00] express my liberty in this way and be able to choose. I just got an email from someone who was like, help me choose my choice. And I think that’s gonna be really important I think right now, and for some people, even in states where medical aid in dying is authorized, it can be seen as this fringe medicine. And I was just talking with one of our chief executives at Compassionate Choices. And he was saying, I really want to see people able to go to WebMD, people able to go to Zocdoc, people able to go through their insurance coverage and say, I want to be able to choose medical aid in dying,

who are the doctors who are able to shepherd me through this? I mean I know even in states where it’s authorized, it’s can be really difficult to access. And so I just think we’re going to see a shift in our culture where, it becomes easier to access, where it’s authorized in more places, where people are having more open conversations about it.

And where people are actually able to have that agency at the end of life.

Maddy Roche: [00:32:00] Again, some of your language is just touches my heart. You’re right, the baby boomer generation is aging and a lot of us are gonna start witnessing not just our grandparents, but our parents passed away. We know at Childfree Insights and Childfree Trust® that people are quite prompted to do estate planning once they’ve witnessed estate planning either go right or wrong.

And I imagine it’s probably pretty true for witnessing death and maybe this is our opportunity for a revolution of people saying, wow, I witnessed something go really well, or I witnessed something go really horribly and that’s not what I’d want. To then prompt people with these opportunities that your organization offers and that we at Childfree Trust® offer of how do we have more autonomy in this?

And I’m excited for it.

Zeena Regis: Yes, me too. And I think wherever we’re having open conversations, care will improve. And like I said, I think it’s a tiny, tiny percentage, like 1% of people are choosing medical aid in dying right now. And that may stay the same, but as long as we’re able to have conversations about our [00:33:00] choices and we don’t feel like we’re just pushed into this way of doing things, I think, we’ll all be better for that.

Maddy Roche: I couldn’t agree more. Zeena, this has been a fabulous podcast and I hope our listeners have found your explanation of medical aid in dying. Your myth busting about it, your context for how to think about and prepare for death, how to support others in it. That everyone found it as valuable as I have and I appreciate the work you do.

I appreciate the work your organization does. I suspect this will be a highly listened to podcast folks. If you love it, rate it, please. Send in any comments or thoughts. We will likely be doing a q and a with Zeena here to make sure that your knowledge continues to be shared and that we continue to facilitate open conversations.

’cause I can’t agree more that when we have choices, things get better. So Zeena, thank you so much.

Zeena Regis: Oh, thank you so much for having me. This was such a pleasure.

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