Bri Conn, CFP®: [00:00:00] Welcome to Childfree Life by Design. Today, we’re talking about why and how to have proactive money conversations with your partner and what it means for people who are building a Childfree life on their own terms. I’m Bri Conn, here with Dr. Jay Zigmont. In this episode, we’ll touch on some stats about money conversations and how often they happen, why you should talk about money even if it feels hard, and different ways you can start having that conversation. If you’ve ever wondered how to talk about your financial future without causing a massive argument, this conversation will give you the clarity and tools to make intentional decisions that support the life you want.

Intro: From Childfree Insights, this is Childfree Life By Design, the go-to resource for building the Childfree life you want. Every episode gives you practical guidance, clear direction, and meaningful conversations to help you live intentionally and design a future on your terms. This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes [00:01:00] only. Please consult your advisor before implementing any ideas heard on this podcast.

Bri Conn, CFP®: Hi, listeners. Welcome to Childfree Life by Design. Today, Dr. Jay and I are going over the topic of not only why you should be having money conversations with your spouse, but also how to have them. For so many people, we see them come to us, and they might not know what their spouse has done with money in the past, or they’re worried about having a conversation. Typically, there’s also one person who’s really into talking about money and another person who really shies away from talking about it, therefore, they let the other person handle it. In the past, we’ve done an episode before on the solo spouse, of why it’s important where both people should know, but we haven’t really talked about how to do that as much. Today, we’re gonna dive a little bit deeper into it. So, the first thing when it comes to talking with clients and having that conversation about money, we often wanna start with boundaries. Dr. [00:02:00] Jay, when you’re talking to clients about those boundaries, what are some of the things that you bring up with them?

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: I think the challenge is as a couple, if we go back to how do we arrange our finances, the question is are we doing it together, separately, or mixed? And then where are the boundaries in there? So for example, if you’re doing it completely separately, are you still okay with the other person knowing what’s going on? Or is it like, “Nope, you’re not allowed to talk about it at all.” And by the way, if the answer is, “No, we’re not allowed to talk about it at all,” we are true roommates, and I can’t support you if you like, I don’t know, had a stroke and I need to handle this for you. And if that’s okay, that’s okay. But you need to kind of walk through it, and part of the challenge here is to set boundaries like what’s truly off-limits versus “I don’t really wanna talk about that.” ‘Cause when it comes to the money spending, people are like, “I don’t wanna tell you how much I just spent on XYZ.” And I’m like, “Look, I’m not here to judge how much you spent on fruit dresses,” in my wife’s case. By the way, [00:03:00] my wife hates when I do these episodes, so I am sure I’ll catch hell for it. But we have rules about what I’m allowed and not allowed to say on the podcast, what we’re allowed and not allowed to talk about in real life, and that has to be the case.

Bri Conn, CFP®: Exactly. Getting on the same page with one another about what can be shared and what can’t be shared, and also with who. Those boundaries might be different. The conversations that we have offline might be different than the conversations that we have online with people.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: And by the way, we’re talking about boundaries between couples, but how about the boundary of do you share this with your parents or your friends or others? It’s, it’s kinda no different than like, do you share stories about your sex life, your personal life, anything else. Like, who do you share with and who do you not? That is the case, and frankly, the one about, like, what do you share outside the couple might be the more interesting boundary than anything else.

Bri Conn, CFP®: It’s such a fun conversation, and it can vary. My wife and I recently had this conversation actually a couple nights ago about what do we share and what do we not share? What are those boundaries when it comes to other people? We have very clear boundaries of there are [00:04:00] certain people who know everything behind the scenes with us. But that certain people, it’s limited to amount of people that I can count on my hand. And some of them are also in the same industry as my wife. They already know what to look for, and if they wanted to, they could figure things out on their own. So we have very open and honest conversations about that. Other people, we don’t ever share those real numbers with them, and that’s okay. How do you have the conversation with you and your wife about how you handle it with the other people?

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: The challenge is for me, it’s kinda like a public and private. When I say public, this, welcome to being on a podcast. I did a Business Insider article. It talked a little about my life and my story, and we can link to that. And I really felt awkward talking about some of it. I do share the story that I made a million dollars before I was 21, spent it by the time I was 25. Those are kind of historic stories. That’s fine. The personal day-to-day, we don’t share with anybody. I’m just telling you that. It’s just kinda how we work it. And part of that is within our families, I’m [00:05:00] not sure that’s gonna help anything. And particularly since, you know, we’re living a Childfree life and other folks are not, it’s just gonna cause issues. And I’m like, “It’s none of their damn business.” And that’s just kinda how we leave it. That being said, we do help others with their finances. We’re happy to listen, but we tend to be one where, like, “Mm, nope, outside of the two of us, we don’t share.”

Bri Conn, CFP®: And that’s fair. It’s totally valid of what you want to decide. A fun thing is I have a friend who just bought a house a couple weeks ago, and one of the things was they’d always say, “Oh, we’re gonna buy a house, we’re gonna buy a house.” And me being the math person, they’re like, “I already know your opinion on this.” And I asked them, it’s somebody who, same industry, all the stuff between us is very similar. But I said, “Will you do me a favor and keep track of all of the expenses related to your house? And can we do some math on this in a few years of like, what does it math out to your renting versus now owning a home?” And they’re [00:06:00] okay with that. That’s a couple we share things very freely with ’cause we’ve been friends, and we’re practically like siblings at this point. But not everybody wants to be that open and honest. And the math person in me just loves the fact that they said yes, and we could do this little experiment on the side.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: And I wanna hear the results on that one, it’s the question I’m always asking. But when people actually do the math, they really get sad because they were like, “Oh, I thought buying a house was a good math equation.” And you’re like, “Well, we didn’t account for one, two, three, four, five.”

Bri Conn, CFP®: Exactly. So many things that can pop up that we don’t know about ahead of time. I want to share a study from Fidelity, they did in 2026 on couples and money, where they said 68% of couples don’t know their partner’s full financial picture before moving in together, and 49% deliberately avoid talking about money to prevent arguments. What is your response to that?

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: And I take a deep breath on this. I’m of the belief, this is old school coaching, that you can’t coach somebody who’s [00:07:00] seen you naked or they’ve seen you naked. I’m not sure that couples can always do this conversation without help, but I do think, and this is kind of like a hard and fast line for me, that before you get serious, whatever that means to you, whether it’s moving in, getting married, whatever it is, you need to have the real conversation. I call it the credit report date. You know, you’re going over this stuff, and you may need a third party to do it. If you just avoid talking about it, you are setting yourself up for hard times, divorce. It’s one of the top reasons for divorce every year just behind and around infidelity. And by the way, there’s such a thing as financial infidelity, and I’ve just seen too many people get hurt by hiding things. And the answer is, we all have baggage. We all have junk, and we need to be honest about it. And we also, as a relationship, need to decide are we willing to accept each other’s financial baggage, good, bad or ugly.

Bri Conn, CFP®: And when you look at it that way and say, “Hey, we all have to accept one another,” [00:08:00] sometimes people automatically mean that accepting means that accepting of every single purchase. That is not the case. You don’t have to accept every single purchase that your spouse makes over time. There are gonna be things that one person might spend money on that the other person thinks is just silly. When we’re talking about clients who bring all their finances together, oftentimes we’ll say, “Hey, let’s make sure each person has a bit of personal money set aside so that they can go spend it however they see fit.” I know one of the big things I spend my money on is I shop at REI and go to different outdoor stores frequently. If you looked at my personal history spending, it is all outside gear. My wife does not understand that, does not think that I need to have another sun shirt in a different color. But we have that money set aside where we can do that freely and without judgment.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: And I think that’s key is like having a little safe space for whatever you wanna do. I think the hard part is a lot of this comes with your family stories and [00:09:00] history. Like, “That’s a waste of money.” And I’m like, “Says who?” There are some things that are waste of money that I do that I’m still gonna do. I’m just gonna call that out. And if that makes me happy, whatever, I need it, I want it, whatever else it is, within reason, that’s fine. That’s why we tend to set this fun money. And my wife is one of those where she just won’t spend the money. She’s like, “I don’t wanna spend this. I’m gonna wait till it goes on sale.” I’m like, “It’s 30 bucks. Just buy it. Seriously. It’s not gonna change our financial outcome.” But there’s guilt that comes around with money and all that. The other one, and this is kind of a pet peeve, is, I wanna be able to buy my spouse gifts and not have them worry about the money for it. If you wanna mess up a gift, just go ahead and ask me how much it costs. That doesn’t help a gift, okay? Like, whether it’s cheap or expensive, it does not help. So we need to be able to be safe spending some money within reason. Now, at the same time, we need to be open enough to go, “Listen, you have a gambling [00:10:00] addiction,” or, “You have a problem with X, Y, and Z.” Which, by the way, could be both spending money and not spending money. And we need to be able to have those conversations. So we need to create a safe enough space that you can be yourself, but also we should be able to watch out for each other a little bit.

Bri Conn, CFP®: Watching out for each other I think is a important thing, but it’s also a reminder to not take that a step too far. Sometimes we can go too much, especially if we’re the money one and we’re trying to control every penny, where it just creates arguments. If you’ve listened to old podcast episodes, you know the infamous chicken nugget episode where one night when my wife and I were first married, lost my mind over buying chicken nuggets, which is incredibly unreasonable for that situation in our marriage, and also now at any point in time. Because I got to the point of watching out, but I took it too far. Dr. Jay, you sat firsthand to that episode. I’m sure you wanna share more about what that was like seeing my reaction, then [00:11:00] also seeing my wife’s reaction.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: Let’s be real, Bri, you’re undercutting the whole thing. I remember a hell of a lot of emotions with that Chicken Nuggets. I don’t know what it was, 20 bucks or less. It was nothing money-wise. But it’s a sign that other things were going on, and that’s the hard part. And that’s actually why sometimes as a couple we can’t do this alone. Where I’m having these conversations with people, I’m like, “Listen, give up.” No, I’m not gonna pick on your Chicken Nuggets too much, ’cause I feel bad. Like, that’s picking a scab. But I had another discussion with somebody that wanted to do some home improvements, all right? And when the couple wanted to do it, the other one was, like, pinching every penny. And one of the rules I set with home improvements, general things like that, and like any big expense, is if you’re spending less than 1% of your net worth, don’t bother my time as your financial planner. Just go do it. And in this case, their home improvement was less than 1% of their net worth. I’m like, “Just go do it.” Your stocks go up 1% or down percent, 1%, on a whim or a tweet [00:12:00] these days, so it doesn’t matter to your outcome. So I said, “Just go spend it.” And we’re talking about tens of thousands, maybe $100,000 in this case, so they had some good money. But they’ve been fighting about it for two years. And I’m like, “Just go spend the money. Seriously, it’s not gonna change your outcome.” And what happens is, we go from, like, a $20 chicken nugget to $100,000 home improvement, and you’re going, “Those are completely different.” I’m like, “No, they’re not.” They’re completely the same issue around how do we spend our money, how do we communicate, what are our values? It’s just replacing one thing with the other.

Bri Conn, CFP®: You’re making a good point about it doesn’t have to be the dollar amount itself, it’s that communication behind it. Because the reality is, some of those things, less than 1% of a net worth to do home improvements that are a couple hundred thousand dollars, that’s not much at all. And taking and having those conversations, we often will shy away from and instead say, “No, it’s the dollar amount.” You’re right, not the dollar amount. It is the [00:13:00] communication behind it. One thing I wanna make sure we dive into as well is the administrative chaos that comes with not having these conversations, and then something happening, like sudden illness, cognitive decline, or unexpected death.

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Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: So I’ve got a handful of clients at this point, where one of the couple was managing all the finances, and then something happened, whether it was a death or disability, other things, and the other person was left just in the lurch. And I think the challenge there is before there was this event, actually both cases disability started and then ended up in a death in one case that I’m thinking of. Before the event, I swear they had the right thought pattern of like, “Hey, I’m taking care of this for my spouse.” And that’s great. But when that other spouse is now out of luck or out of action, things fall apart, where we lose accounts, we lose information, In some cases, we owe taxes. Whatever else it is, it becomes a disaster. And I also think if you as a couple are doing your finances together, like, combining stuff, you’re married, it’s not nice to put everything on the other person. Not only is it an administrative nightmare, but like you should have enough understanding that if shit happens, you know what to do. Now, I will tell you, what we tend to do with our clients is [00:15:00] if they’re coming to us as clients, we often will strongly encourage the couple to come together, very strongly in some cases. And it’s okay if one person’s just sitting in the back a little bit, but one of the things we’re doing there is we’re saying, “Hey, if an emergency ever happens, you can call me as your financial planner and I can help you.” Now, part of what we’re having to do there is build a relationship with the spouse that’s not managing the money so that they have a backup plan. It doesn’t mean you have to pass off things to the other person, or they have to know everything about it, or they have to know every check you pay or bill you pay or whatever. No. They have to feel comfortable enough that if shit happens, they’re okay.

Bri Conn, CFP®: And over time too, some of those people who are the ones sitting back further are the ones leaning ahead and trying to lead the conversation and go, “Hey, I’m really interested now and invested in this, and I want to learn more and understand more.” And that’s a fun shift to see from couples as well because it allows a different [00:16:00] dynamic to take place and maybe things that they didn’t feel comfortable talking about before or bringing up, now there’s been comfort built and you can have that conversation.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: Let me give you an example. And Bri was talking about chicken nuggets, all right? So about the same time as chicken nuggets, I was helping her and her spouse with their finances. And let’s be real, Bri, you are very good at managing your own finances. You’ve got everything down to the penny in a budget, in a structure. Is that fair?

Bri Conn, CFP®: That’s fair.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: Okay. One of the things I said and did was said, “Okay, let your spouse handle the budget for a while. And whatever your spouse says, however they decide it, that’s up to them.” To just give them that experience. Did that freak you out?

Bri Conn, CFP®: It very much did. And we were having a conversation about that recently of that time where we switched and she handled things, and how anxious I was about her handling it. And now she pretty much runs all of it, and I just go, “Okay. We’re good.”

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: And by the way, I’ve done this experiment multiple times, and sometimes it [00:17:00] goes back and we switch back or whatever else it is. But I’m amazed every time it helps people learn. It helps both parties learn and go, “Okay, let me step in your shoes for a little bit.” Sometimes, they’re like, “Yeah, I’m not touching this. I respect you. You handle it all fine.” And other times it works out whichever way, but it’s really scary to do. Is that fair?

Bri Conn, CFP®: Yeah, and it’s a lack of control. Giving that up and saying, “Okay, it’s yours to handle now.” Especially just, one, the fact that I have anxiety, two, the fact that I work in finance and I’m very hands-on about it, and I’ve seen so many different things over the years of what can go right and what can go wrong and all of this. Giving that control up was terrifying. And so many times I’d be like, “Oh, I gotta check it. I wanna say something,” like, “I don’t think this is right,” but it’s okay. Over time, it was not only a good exercise for her to learn and build understanding, and now [00:18:00] she’s like, “Yep, I do this, I do this,” like, “We’re good.” But also for me to just chill out a little bit, honestly, ’cause I needed it.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: And me and my wife had a discussion about this the other day. So our general monthly expenses are about $9,000 a month. It really doesn’t matter what number it is, but just that’s my number. And what I’ve done, and this is what I tend to recommend to folks, is whenever you’re in the checking account, you keep one month of expenses, and when you hit that number, you’re at zero. So for us, we keep $9,000 in the checking. If we ever hit that, we treat it like we’ve got nothing in the bank account. What that actually allows us to do is have little peaks and valleys in there, and even if like a check gets messed up or I’m still waiting on my IRS return from two years ago, like things just don’t happen, I’m okay. So my wife was asking about our budget and I said, “Look, I don’t budget down to the penny. What I do is I watch each month to see are we plus or minus on that $9,000. Sometimes we’re a little behind, sometimes we’re a little ahead. We’re within $1,000 of that at all times. You know [00:19:00] what? I don’t have to manage the budget. I don’t.” And I’m one of those where I will tell some folks to do a very specific budget and have categories and all that because it helps them. It doesn’t help us. We actually have a problem actually spending probably too little money at times, where we have to encourage each other to get a little enjoyment out of spending money. And it’s a very easy way for me to look at our numbers and go, “Yeah, we overspent this month. Next month we might have to take it a little easier,” or back and forth. But when I explained to her this concept, she goes, “Well, that kind of makes sense, you know? If you’re plus or minus a little bit, you’re good.” And I’m like, “Cool. So that’s why when you’re spending $30 extra, it doesn’t make a difference.” And she goes, “Huh, I never thought of that.” And she was like, “Well, do I have a budget for how much blueberries I can spend?” I’d be like, “Just spend it. Seriously, we’re fine. That might drop the budget down an extra 30 bucks. Who cares?” And it’s a way to free it. But yet for other folks, and Bri, I wonder if this is you, there’s no control there. That’s kind of just a little more free-flowing.

Bri Conn, CFP®: It is a little bit more [00:20:00] free-flowing, but that’s what we’ve gone to really. We just did the math the other day because we’re recording this in beginning of July, so we just hit six months. We did, okay, some months our expenses are higher, some they’re lower, just depending on if we’re booking travel. But we know the number that has to be month over month. So we went through, added it all up. Okay, was the average that? Yes. Month over month, we are right on target. We’re good. And so it’s been a little bit nice to not also look at things so in depth all the time and feel like, “Oh no, I can’t buy the chicken nuggets.” I love buying groceries, honestly. That is one of my favorite things to do.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: And let’s be clear on this. So the chicken nugget time when you were having a bit of a, let’s call it an issue, was a different time in your life. So, for example, if you’re getting out of debt, yeah, you gotta be on a tight budget. I’m just telling you that right now. There’s no other way. Once you’re out of debt and you have a fully funded emergency fund, nah, plus or minus a little bit, you’re okay. But what happens is too [00:21:00] many people get stuck living in that rent and ramen world where they think they don’t have enough money to pay for rent and ramen, that they, like, just get frozen there. And I’m like, “No, go get an extra dinner out, or go have fun.” And that’s the balance. And I think the hard part is we seem to think we need to always either be in this, like, scrimping and saving like we’re running out of money, or people are like, “Ah, there’s no tomorrow so we’re just gonna spend it all.” There’s a balance between those. And as a couple, the challenge is to have that conversation and be on the same page. What you don’t want is one person scrimping and saving and the other one spending like crazy. That’s just asking for trouble.

Bri Conn, CFP®: And that could be hard. There might be times where that does happen, and having the ability to say, “Hey, I’m really feeling like spending is a little bit high. Can we look at the categories?” ‘Cause I’ve seen an uptick recently of people coming and going, “I think these are our numbers every month, but we’re not really sure.” Well, in that case, I do encourage you to sit down with a budget for a few months and make sure we know where we’re at. Is that guess that we have [00:22:00] correct or is it not correct? And where are different things going? Especially if you are underestimating your expenses and you’re finding out those expenses are a lot higher than you expect, well, where’s the money going? What’s happening there? And for some people, it’s been a conversation of, “Oh, yep, I’m really swiping that card a couple more times than I’d like to be doing, and we need to adjust that.”

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: And part of the communication is, and Bri, I’m gonna kind of bear my soul here so, be kind, is as a couple, the one that’s keeping an eye on the money, so that happens to be me in my relationship, if they’re not communicating, and I’m freely admitting I’m doing this, I’ll cut back on my spending before I ask my wife to cut back on hers. And I see this in couples also, where like, it’s a rough time, let me cut back. And now they have the conversation where if you as a couple are going, “Look, this month’s a little tough,” you can both make very similar moves, very small moves, and be okay and not one being the martyr or [00:23:00] taking the cut for both. But we don’t communicate well enough to do that.

Bri Conn, CFP®: Exactly. Even if you’ve been doing it for years and communicating, it’s not gonna be perfect over time. Sometimes we need to have that conversation again and bring it up, but also bring it up before it gets to a point where it’s annoying.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: I’m just laughing at the annoying ’cause, there’s some small things that get annoying real quick. I’m just saying, like it’s not always building up to.

Bri Conn, CFP®: You’re right. There are so many things that can be annoying when we’re talking about money. The other day I dropped my wife off at the airport, and on the way she said, “Oh, I’m gonna get empanadas.” And me being me, I went, “You had enough time at home to make food. You don’t need to be buying it.” And I was kind of snarky, and she just ignored it and let it go. And then she went and got food, and she texted me from the airport and said, “You’re right about that, actually. I didn’t need to buy this. I just wanted to.” And we continued on, and it wasn’t something like the chicken nuggets anymore. It was just me making a comment and her [00:24:00] accepting the fact that I just made a little bit of a snarky comment, and we continued. When we’re first having these conversations, sometimes what we’ll do is we’ll incorporate weekly money dates with people, where they can go in and run their marriage almost like a business. And it doesn’t sound romantic or sexy or any of that, but it can be really helpful to do. When we’re starting those conversations out, I always like to encourage that people not only talk about money, but add in some life stuff, too. Because if we’re just talking about money in those conversations, it can be really difficult. My wife and I like to do what we call Wednesdays for the Wives, simply ’cause it’s funny and it just sounds appealing. And when we do it, we talk about what went well during our week, what are we grateful for, what are some things that we could use some help with. We talk about money, but we also end it on, “I love you because…” And each week we find a different reason to fill in. Because at the end of these conversations, which sometimes can be hard, [00:25:00] it’s a good reminder of, hey, each day we’re still choosing one another.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: Yeah, I implemented this plan of the weekly meetings for a couple. And I also encouraged them to do a daily check-in, just, you know, “How you doing? How’s your day?” And what was interesting is about six months later, their relationship was a completely different place. And I’m like, “Hey, I’m not a relationship coach or therapist.” But what happened was just by building in that communication in a regular schedule, it went a long way. And one of the things that was in there was exactly what you talk about, where you each spend a little bit of time, doesn’t have to be long, just talking about whatever’s on your mind. Kind of what worked, what didn’t, what’s going on in your life, and it’s a forced structure. And what I love about it is just that small change took them from like, let’s call it antagonists, to back when they [00:26:00] started in the relationship, having a better connection. And it wasn’t really about money, it was just they were kinda crossing paths and not stopping to have that conversation. And what happens is money is often the first symptom, because it’s obvious, but you usually see this other stuff. And just for clarity, Bri and I are both talking about our lives. We happen to be married. But this goes for any couple or group or whatever your relationship is, what is more than just you. It’s about building a structure around it.

Bri Conn, CFP®: And when we’re building that structure, we’ve had some people ask before, what are some other tips where we can take and have these conversations? ‘Cause having them at home sometimes feels a little bit difficult. One thing that I always like to share is when my wife and I went and made our prenup, we ended up going out to a restaurant. And we said, “We’re gonna sit here, and we’re gonna go through it.” And it happened to be that the place we went, we had never been there before, had an arcade. So we did our prenup, made all of our adjustments, and then went and played in the arcade. But taking and picking a fun spot that you [00:27:00] guys like going together, whether it be a coffee, a local brewery, or anything like that, and having those conversations out and about sometimes means that you’re not surrounded by the stress of your home. Particularly, like the situation you were talking about with somebody with home renovations, I can see having a conversation about that at home, having one person go like, “But look at the wall. We can visibly see the issue.” Whereas if you’re out, that might not happen.

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: I may or may not have had somebody, like, turn the screen. “Let me show you my issue.” I’m like, “I’m not trying to get in the middle of this. I already said spend the money.” I think you’re right on. And I was thinking about, I was laughing as you were saying, I have a couple that every time they come to the meeting, they’re there with two other things. One is adult drink in each hand, and the other one is their dog. And I’m like, “All right, cool.” I know how we’re doing this. And it’s just kind of a standard setup, and it’s a different beverage every time, and just how it works. And if that works for you, awesome. I have other folks that wanna, like, sit down at the computer and, you know, use the Excel and blah, blah, blah. That’s [00:28:00] fine. Whatever works for you is fine. Just keep in mind your spouse might like the other version.

Bri Conn, CFP®: And if you both wanna take and then come to a compromise of how that is, that works as well. Another thing—

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: One week we do the Excel, one week we do the arcade.

Bri Conn, CFP®: Exactly. A little bit of balance is good for everybody’s life, right? Another thing that might be helpful for you is if you just have a word one of you can call out. It can be easy, silly. It can be a food, whatever you might pick that one person can say, and you know immediately the conversation about whatever you’re discussing has to cease for a little bit, so each person can just take a break, think about things, and then come back in a bit. But the important thing is have a time limit on when you come back. So maybe it’s a, “Hey, we’re gonna do a 20-minute break, and then we’ll come back and re-discuss this.” Or say, “We need to talk about this when we’re talking with our planner.”

Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®: I like that. And, to go one further, I had a couple, a couple keywords they set up, more than one. One of the things they set up was, “Hey, [00:29:00] I understand you have a lot going on in your life, but I need to talk about my stuff.” So they set up a word that is like essentially, “Oh, shit, I need to talk about my stuff. I still love you, but I need it the moment.” And I was like, that’s brilliant. Because let’s be real, we’re all talking about our day, we’re having whatever, and we don’t know that our spouse is like, “Oh yeah, I got something I really have to talk about.” And we’re trying to watch out for each other, so we giving each other space. But by setting up this, you know, keyword, you know… I don’t know why it’s a lot of fruits and vegetables or whatever it is. Random things. It’s like, oh yeah, that’s a pause. The other one they set up was a word for, “I just want you to listen, not solve.” And I was like, “Ooh, that’s got some legs on it.” And what’s happening is because you’re doing it as a word you set up before, there’s none of that like, “Hey, I’m gonna feel weird telling you this. I just want you to shut up and listen.” Like I can’t say those words. But if I have this one word, I go, “Okay, we [00:30:00] know. We shift.” And I’m like, that is beautiful.

Bri Conn, CFP®: So I think in summary of this episode, it’s really focusing on knowing the boundaries of what you’re willing to communicate with your partner or spouse, whoever it may be, but also other people. Making sure that you have at least one person having knowledge in case something happens, and making ways for you to have fun while having these conversations, because they can be exciting conversations if you let them be.

Outro: That’s all for this episode of Childfree Life by Design. Remember, intentionally choosing to invest in moments of joy is just as important as investing in your future. Until next time, happy designing. You’ve been listening to Childfree Life by Design. Make sure you follow the show, leave a rating or review, and connect with us on social @childfreeinsights. For more resources, guides, or upcoming events, visit [00:31:00] childfreeinsights.com.